This is meant as a theme suggestion for what I think low-security space is all about; it's meant as a theme that I think is beneficial to everyone: pirates, victims and vigilantes alike.
In the EVE storyline, low-security systems belong to some empire faction. They are not, as is a common perception, a no-mans land -- that would be null-security space. Nor are they the domain of pirate factions and criminals.
Low-security space is [like the television depiction of] the wild west of New Eden where lawmen are rare and moral lawmen are rarer still; criminals prey on wary and hardened victims and victims sometimes take the law into their own hands. Think back to your childhood days of watching the Lone Ranger, Bonanza and John Wayne movies. Yes, there were bad guys; but I think you'll see a common theme in that there were good guys, ordinary guys and morally corrupt lawmen mixed in as well.
Criminals need victims. Victims need vigilantes. Vigilantes need criminals. It is the circle of life. What low-security space has now is a plethora of criminals, a small sprinkling of victims and an occasional vigilante. My contention is that attracting more vigilantes and victims (sometimes they are the same) is in the interest of all low-security dwellers.
Most criminals are only interested in killing other players; if they do PvE it's primarily to feed that habit. If this is true, then adding special content and benefits for these people is truly not in the criminals' best interest; benefits only for criminals will do nothing to attract new victims (which I've established, with nary a sign of proof, are part of the circle of life). Further, benefits for criminals will only further the perception that criminals have all the advantages in low-security space and deter vigilantes.
Victims are only interested in making money. They aren't interested, or are only lightly interested in player-versus-player conflict. Only the promise of quick cash will steer these players to low-security space. And flying very expensive, vulnerable battleships into an area where they are easily probed down and ganked or stopped short of their goals conflicts sharply with making fast cash. These cupcakes need to be persuaded to fly combat-worthy ships into missions where the opportunity to gank them is shorter but failure is an option that won't break the bank or destroy their faction reputation. http://paritybit.wordpress.com/2010/05/20/low-security-pve-is-not-pve/
Vigilantes are the rotten and moldy cupcakes who used to be interested in quick cash but got ganked one too many times or violent pilots with an e-conscience. The only lure necessary for these fish to the hook is a clear and visible signal that a pilot is a criminal and the freedom to act on that information. A reward from CONCORD couldn't hurt either. http://paritybit.wordpress.com/2010/06/14/instant-bad-ass-o-meter/
For a healthy low-security environment, we need all three of these archetypes. Sure, criminals will prey on criminals, vigilantes will sway outside their moral values to gank a juicy victim and victims will turn into vigilantes -- but that too is part of the circle of life.
Just to be clear, I'm not suggesting that ideas about criminal-centered PvE are wrong; I'm suggesting that these ideas really appeal more to the victims and should be aimed in that direction. I am suggesting that benefits to criminals such as turning off gate guns or providing other advantages are a poor idea for a healthy ecology.
Comments (17)
could not agree more
The problem I have with the wild west idea is that it leaves out the fact that two of the largest political groups in the universe are waging war there in order to take control of it. In the US wild west it wasn't like England was fighting China [or fill in some other major world power during the time of the wild west. My history isn't good enough to know who the top 4 would have been at that time] to take control of the wild west. It was pretty much loosely appointed sherriffs and technically controled by the Unites States which at that time was a second class power going through a civil war. So maybe not so unlike the player controled alliances - suggesting null sec may indeed be a better fit for the "wild west" theme.
It seems to me that the wild west probably doesn't fit eve at all.
I'm not talking about a historical wild west; I'm talking about a TV depiction of the wild west -- which i had hoped was clear from the description. I'll update it.
And while your description of low-security space as a war zone may be applicable for some of that space, not all of it is part of the actual ongoing war. It's closer to a neutral zone between empires (only it isn't stretched all the way between).
In your head, feel free to replace any ocurrences of "wild west" with "place where there isn't much to uphold the law, what little there is might be corrupt and the people in charge don't have the money or desire to fix it".
Although your general belief is true, the fact of losec today is mostly empty except for roaming gangs and the random industrial alt/corp.
What losec needs is attraction to bring bodies in, both good and bad. I sat logged in in local (in a contestable FW system) for three hours yesterday. I had one neutral enter (and exit) as quickly as it takes to pass through. Obviously it's not always like that, but frankly, NPC nullsec has more population than some losec areas.
"If you build it, they will come" - so suggest something to bring them in...
It's my contention that the bounty hunting mission mechanic (agents who give you pvp-like missions until you have enough standing and then give you bounty missions) will do something to draw some people in, provided it's properly placed on the reward scale.
I would love to see additional draws, but that's not what this idea was about. I'm just tired of seeing ideas that give more advantages to criminals with no thought for a balanced ecosystem -- criminals cannot exist without victims to prey on. More advantages that only apply to criminals will just ensure there are fewer victims.
I'm a blogger, so I read other blogs. When I read pirate blogs I see two types of posts: 1) "we just ganked a sweet noob with too much isk" and 2) "we roamed, didn't find much, engaged some other pirates".
What I want to see is: "We were looking for a little fun and a little loot so we started off with a short roam looking for targets. We'd only gone a few jumps but had passed multiple cruisers barely missing them before we finally snagged a heavy assault cruiser on a gate. He dropped some good loot and we continued. About halfway through our roam we realized a 3-man gang was tailing us, and we decided to set up a trap. They came through the gate to find us prepared for a fight; but after they quickly tagged Frank, they warped off -- turns out they were bounty hunters and Frank was tonight's worm." Ending is variable depending on your viewpoint -- I expect sometimes the fish would get the worm, and sometimes the fisherman would get the fish.
I'm not done, this is just a start -- this is a theme describing how I would like low-sec to look when we're finished.
Well I read the description you wrote but I did not go to the links. In the description you seem to be giving an idea for a back story - not really any mechanics.
I guess my view of low sec is way *more* than wild west. Way more than the carebear v pirate or law versus criminal view.
I would say it’s more like a mix between the middle east and Normandy on d day and the wild west and all the major historical events in our one world expanded out to multiple solar systems! There is war going on and there is instability and there are competing political and religious claims. All sorts of stuff should be going on!
Low sec is pretty much where *all* of the eve back story history is currently being made. Null sec is irrelevant backwater and high sec - well not much going on there other than economic news. Low sec is really where the vast majority of history is being made in eve.
Let’s not make it 1 dimensional good guys versus bad guys. Yes it has that but you know it *already* has that. If we are going to do more back story make it amazing! Break it open and have all sorts of reasons and causes to fight for and stuff going on!
Have systems that have special religious importance and cause fighting among factions have other political causes. Have fights about all sorts of things that people can join up for. Low sec should not be portrayed as a “no man’s” land that no one cares enough about to protect so people have to fend for themselves.
It should be the pinnacle of eve. If you want to be king of some back water fiefdom well null sec is it. If you want to be Paul Revere or Luke skywalker from the first movie, then low sec is it. You can’t be Caesar but you can be Belisarius.
All those taxes in Jita? They are going to fund the war to secure black rise. Black rise isn’t Oklahoma of 1860s it contains the Jeruselem of 1099, it has the battle of hastings, it has rome in 537, Constantinople of 1538 and Berlin of 1944. All these major events are going on now because we are talking about multiple solar systems of history.
In all of these times and places of turmoil there have been corrupt people. In all these times there have been other “minor players” that have had huge influence. But IMO the low sec back story should be *huge* not backwater.
In the end we are talking rp stuff. Right now eve rp is pretty bad. But that’s in large part because it’s very shallow. I’m not saying people have to start pretending they are really amarrian nor do I intend to get all trekky with eve. No not at all.
But we can see glimmers of how things could be in what we have now. For example I would like one day to get a medal as the top solo killer for the amarr. I think the medals that caldari receieved for “winning” fw are pretty nice. But they could be much better. They would be much better if fw wasn’t seen as a lame pve game of hide and seek. So rp depends on the mechanics too. But the rp is really bad right now and it could help people get into some of the mechanics that low sec could offer.
But don’t limit low sec to what it is now – just more of it. Lets ask ccp to make it the greatest thing in eve.
Not just faction war either, other game play activities in low sec could work toward making eve as a whole much more interesting and fun.
How we tie this in to the actual game play will be a challenge but it’s definitely doable.
It's tagged as a theme because it is a theme for low-security space, not a mechanic or other
I added a cohesive story for my bounty hunting suggestion here: http://criminallowsec.ideascale.com/a/dtd/Combination-Bounty-Hunting-fix-and-low-security-PvE-transformation/70952-9665
Faction Warfare does not span all of low-security space, so I don't think the war story belongs throughout. But I'm not opposed to what you say. I just don't want to see a collection of features that give advantages to criminals which will ultimately make the space even less used.
I agree.
Having more vigilantes keeping pirates on their toes, means more victims coming in because it gives them a chance of survival (or at least the illusion of chance of survive), which means more prey for the pirates.
What you have written in this idea is already what low sec is....
Escoce: It's a little bit like this, but it could be more so; A large number of criminals are not below -5.0 security status and so are not really engageable by your average everyday vigilante. It's not because they're not criminals, it's because they can easily rat up their security status and there is good reason to do so (they want to fly in high-sec when it suits them).
Also, nobody doing PvE in low-sec actually flies a PvP ship, which really hampers the PvP aspect of it. It's expected that you want to PvP if you're in low sec (or have a need to skirt around PvP) but flying a PvP ship means you are making much less profit than just doing the same activity in high-sec. And then, what's the point aside from a little more excitement? I mean, I'm up for more excitement, but seems like most others aren't.
I think my actual proposal (see link 3 comments up) will bring us a long way toward this theme, but the reason I posted it as a theme as well without the specifics is that I don't think I have the only right idea and I was trying to test the water as to where everybody else stood on it.
If criminals start hacking gate guns and getting magical safe havens, I'll probably leave low-sec because it will truly only be about the criminals. And most of their other targets (except other criminals) will probably leave too.
I agree with the 'wild west' analogy of what low-sec should be. i however, think it should be more like the Klondike gold rush combined with the 'Wild West'. The 'gold rush' mind you, not 'Dry Gulch' or a ghost town full of tumbleweeds and Desperadoes.
One of my suggestions has been the addition of a 'Space Saloon', or Casino (Pleasure palace, etc.) These entertainments would ONLY be available in low-sec. They would be set up as an oasis of safety, even though they would be rife with criminal activities such as gambling, prostitution, etc.
In order to get care-bears into low-sec, we need some incentive to draw them there. These incentives are easy money, sex, drugs, gambling, etc.
Ideally, the Casino would be set up close to a profitable asteroid belt to mine. Miners would get the chance to do what they like to do best, mine...talk on the chat channel, bring their ISK back to the station for processing, and maybe gamble on the roulette wheel in the hopes of making big, fast, easy ISK.
These miners and traders (at least of the same faction) who patronize the PoS would be protected from Pirates by 'Privateers'. These Privateers would be the biggest, most powerful group of pirates in the area...now pardoned, then hired by Empire as Pirate hunters.
From a care bear perspective, this would be making certain areas of profitable low-sec safer to travel. From a pirate perspective, this would be like restocking the over fished pond with minnows, fattening them up, nurturing them, and waiting for them to become big fat trouts.
This only makes sense, if you think about it. Al Capone got rich by letting ordinary, peaceful folks into his illegal night clubs to buy his illegal booze. His gorilla goons acted as security for the night club patrons. Al Capone wouldn't have gotten very far if he let his goons just start beating up anyone who stepped on his turf and machine gunning them all to death. Everyone would have just run away until the cops shot them all dead like rabid animals.
I've also promoted the idea that some religious sects may be considered heretical in the deeply religious, conservative Amarr society. Likely, these sects would set up shop in low-sec space. It would make no sense to banish them, as they did with the Khanid nation. It makes more sense to keep these groups on the periphery of your empire, acting as a buffer zone.
Compare this with the Pilgrims sent to America by the British. America would be comparable to a 'low-sec' area of the British empire at the time. Also think of how religions such as Mormonism took root in the 'wild west' of their own state and later their own city.
These low-sec sects would be looking for converts, as well as miners, traders, and of course fighters. It wouldn't be too hard to imagine these various sects war deccing on each other.
I don't think that the Amarr are the only religious faction on EVE either. I see the Minmatar as being a deeply religious people also.
I definitely support this. There really needs to be some way for someone going to low sec looking to make money to mitigate the risk to themselves (or even just the perceived risk) if you want to draw people into null sec. A lot of the ideas that I've read are all about pirates and making a low security rating a bad thing. Some of these ARE good ideas but making low sec all pirates won't really improve it and it won't make it profitable because at that point the only money you can make is off other people's dropped modules.
I do like this idea, but it leaves out Faction Warfare.
That's a good point, I didn't call out faction warfare specifically. In my mind, this is the backdrop rather than the activities that take place. Faction warfare is taking place with this wild west backdrop. Participants are criminals, or not. Are preyed upon by criminals, or not.
I do agree that something needs to be done to improve faction warfare, though. I'm just not sure what it is.
"I do agree that something needs to be done to improve faction warfare, though. I'm just not sure what it is."
Well, perhaps we should emphasize the -FACTION- aspect of faction war.
====================================================
Dictionary definition:
fac·tion
1 /ˈfækʃən/ Show Spelled[fak-shuhn] Show IPA
–noun
1.
a group or clique within a larger group, party, government, organization, or the like: a faction in favor of big business.
2.party strife and intrigue; dissension: an era of faction and treason.
—Synonyms
2. discord, disagreement, schism, split, friction.
====================================================
So to summarize:
How to improve factional warfare?
=Allow those capturing complexes to claim in in the name of their militia AND/ OR their corporation.=
that is, each FACTION can claim a territory as their own.
Want your own SOLAR SYSTEM? Just capture a complex and say 'MINE'. Cut the Empire out of it, just quit the Militia you belong to in Faction war and keep the complex you capture for your own corp.
One thing about low-sec, is that it COULD be a zero-sec 'Frontier' in microcosm....at least from a Roleplay capsuleer perspective. Solar systems as hotly contested fiefdoms, instead of entire constellations.
In actuality, yes of course "this is what 'zero-sec' is all about, so no need to turn low-sec into mini null sec."
From what I have heard though, zero-sec isn't as 'free' as many might have hoped.
The main difference between null-sec and low-sec is that the Empire is -STILL CLAIMING- that low-sec space as their own. The Empire WILL will fight to reclaim it from the enemy empires just as surely as they will reclaim it from any Pirates or secessionists. They will not do this will null-sec.
However, the Empire might also permit or even encourage dissidents from their own people to settle the area as a 'buffer zone' (i.e. Amarrian zealots settled in Amarrian low-sec to keep the Minmatar terrorists from settling that area.) This is killing two birds with one stone from their perspective. Amarrian zealots and Minnie terrorists kill each other off, while the devout in high-sec stay safe and make money.
From a role-play perspective, low-sec might look as just promising to a capsuleer as zero-sec might be. It's also a lot closer. You are there, now...with all the resources (and manpower, if you are in Militia) you need to carve out a piece of territory for yourself. There's a lot more opportunity to carve yourself out a chunk of low-sec as your own, than there is to carve a chunk of null-sec.
One thing about the Empire militia (which is also true of Real life), is that you have a bunch of fighters on the front lines. Destiny is in their hands. There is a lot of opportunity for Piracy, looting, corruption, etc. within the Militia itself. The Empire Officers are giving them a lot of orders to fight and die for 'God and Empire', but the capsuleers, perhaps for the first time in their lives, are just an insubordination and a few jump gates away from 'total freedom'.
Historically, many Pirates once belonged to an Empire's navy, until they decided to start carving out an empire for themselves. They took their Navy's own ships and sailors, and simply mutineer-ed. Every Army in history has had this problem, ESPECIALLY in frontier territory.
From an Amarrian perspective, one might have a difference of religious interpretation that wasn't acceptable in the strict, conservative society of high-sec. A kind of Amarrian equivalent to a 'Protestant reformation' for instance. Such a group would be hounded by the Theological council in high-sec, but they would be left alone if they settled in low-sec.
Minmatars? Not sure. Perhaps the Brutor tribe has become overpoweringly strong in their influence? Low-sec certainly offers the opportunity to be away from the stifling politics of Empire space.
There are many people on the forum, creative role-players, that define themselves as 'not your typical' Amarrian (Minmatar, Gallentean, etc.) Such characters would be made to feel extremely uncomfortable in their 'conservative' high-sec Empires. A low-sec settlement would be a political haven to such people, if there wasn't the problem of 'so many pirates'.
(e.g. 'Capsuleers define the politics of the region')
The advantages to being close to high-sec? It's easier for 'dissenters' to come from high-sec and populate your territory. You are closer to resources, such as skillbooks. You are closer to trade routes, and a small measure of security (perhaps militia).
Why not null-sec? For one thing, null-sec is 'too far away' from Empire. Sure, in most cases it's only a few jumps or so. In actuality we would be traversing entire solar systems full of habitable worlds. If you were a political refugee, you'd likely set down at the first inhabitable world you came across.
There's also the fact that null-sec has a NBSI policy. The nations there are hardly any more welcoming to refugees than 'unoccupied' Low-sec.
100% supported and couldn't agree with you more.
After some consideration, this is what I am thinking now:
-Allow the four major NPC Pirate faction/ alliances to have their own four solar systems, with four special Pirate stations.
-These Pirate stations are full of Pirate 'goodies', namely Pirate agents with Pirate missions, Pirate faction ships and wares, LP stores, etc.
HOWEVER:
-To gain access to one of these stations, you have to have a high enough standing with that Pirate faction.
-Bad standing with the Blood raiders means the gate guns in a BR controlled system shoot at you. Terrible standing means you won't be allowed to dock in a Blood Raider station.
-This is a hurdle for a lot of player Pirates, since they shoot other NPC pirate rats pretty much indiscriminately just to rat up their sec status until it is high enough to shoot more folks in high sec.
-Now, if they want access to one of the four Pirate stations, the player Pirates will have to choose carefully which NPC rats they want to shoot, and which to leave alone.
-Which of the four Pirate alliances do you want to belong to? Where do you want to be able to dock? You can't 'rat up your sec' anymore and remain friends with everyone. If you decide to remain neutral to all four Pirate factions, that means not shooting rats at all, which means you are pretty much a low-sec Pirate forever.
PIRATE FACTION WAR:
-Just like the Empire Militias, the Pirate factions are at war with each other.
-The fastest way to raise your sec with a particular NPC faction is to shoot NPC pirates, or player Pirates from an opposing faction.
-When your rating is high enough with one of the four major NPC Pirate alliances, you will be invited to join their alliance (i.e. 'Pirate Militia')
-Not only does this allow you entry into their system, it also allows you to dock. You also join in the Pirate Alliance Faction war.
-Now, as a player Pirate you have to be on the lookout....FOR ENEMY PIRATES! Player pirates from the opposing Pirate faction show up as an orange star on your overview, just as they would for Militia targets.
-Really, everyone benefits. The pirates get to PvP all the time with each other, the carebears are a little safer in low-sec, and the Militia can focus on killing each other without as many Pirates in the way. The Pirates actually have a reason to shoot each other as well, instead of 'I like explosions and killmails.'
PIRATE MILITIA ALLIES:
-Additionally, some of the Pirate factions have an uneasy alliance with some of the faction militia (i.e. Privateers).
-What this means is that the Blood Raider NPCs won't shoot the Minmatar Militia, and the Guristas won't shoot the Amarr militia, unless shot at first.
-This ends the neutrality that low-sec Pirates have been hiding behind in Factional Warfare.
-This also means that the NPC Militia rats in a FW plex will aggress a Pirate that jumps through the gate, based on that Pirates alliance/ faction.
-No more safe camping in a plex. As a Pirate, you are by default now on one side of FW or the other.
-It also explains why there are so many Pirates in the Militia.