Making Low Sec Matter

Good point: low-sec also includes the FW contested space. If there were to be a revamped FW occupancy system that didn't suck*, then it could be expanded elsewhere.

* insert your own definition of suck

Any idea's on how to improve the occupation mechanics, in order to move the discussion of your idea forward?

Yes indeed I have them:

1) Let the opposing faction know when plex is entered!! That way they can respond and fight. No more “hide and seek” plexing. There would just be a separate intel channel for each front (one for gallente/caldari the other of min/amarr) that would say something like “[character name]; minmatar; destroyer; minor; destroyer” This would be posted in the intel channel as soon as the plex gate is entered. The other militia would have the time of the plex to send people to fight them off.

2) remove npcs. They are unbalanced and on the whole discourage people from engaging in pvp. There are at least 2 reasons for this. a) they make people use pve fits and b) not many people really know how effective the different npcs will be. You aren't going against a “rifter” and a “thorax” your going against these rats with odd names that few know what they will actually do as far as dps.

3) Have many more plexes (at least 2/3s of the systems should have plexes that can be taken at any given time) spawn though out the day (not just downtime) and spread out in different systems. This will mean that factions can not form one large blob and win. If one side forms a one big blob instead of smaller gangs then the other side can split up and take plexes throughout the fw area. When the blob comes lumbering into one system the other side can exit the plex until the blob leaves and then jump back in the plex. Meanwhile when the blob is there the other militia will have its forces capping plexes in other areas.

In other words the best way to win plexes will be to fight and win in minimum sized gang necessary to take the plex. To the extent your gang is overpowered it is not as efficient – those pilots could be taking (other plexes) other plexes instead of completely overpowering that lone frigate. The blob will eventually learn that in order to win it needs to split up and hold the plexes itself.

4) Have plexes appear on the overview – no probe launchers required.

5) The current ship class restrictions could stay the way they are or be tweaked. Current is dessie or down (which controversially includes pirate frigs) medium is cruiser and down major is bs and down and open is open.

This would make for instant action and small gang warfare. Taking plexes would indeed be the mark of a quality pvp pilot. It would also offer a form of pvp you simply can’t have in eve now. IMO it would be far superior to any form of pvp eve currently offers. It would be perfect for low sec.

I'm not in a faction war, and I don't really have much interest in it. I'm more interested in making a better "midgame" environment, because I'm not ready (or able) to commit to a life in nullsec, but highsec isn't a serious challenge. Unfortunately, the risk involved in "living" in lowsec is a little too high for the rewards...

Must admit that I like the idea of FW plexes, but wasnt interested in joining the militia for other reasons, such as having to leave my corp/alliance.

Im not in a position to debate the mechanic specifics, not ever have taken part in FW, but I think that any changes should:

(1) offer good PvP opertunities, ship size restrictions seem to do this?; and

(2) provide some reson or incentive not to blob.

Mechanic changes sugested above may work.

An impression I get is that many people have the feeling that FW doesnt belong in low sec, and that FW has made lowsec a worse place.

My view is that if the mechanics are changed in line with the points above this will lead to more smaller PvP gangs in low sec, which means more fun for everyone, whether part of FW or not.

Although, this may just adress the PvP aspect of lowsec, and not, as pointed out by dotdotdotpaul, other inportant aspects to get people to use lowsec not just as a PvP playground.

Graanvlokkie

You and I are in the same boat. The very notion of me telling my wife I need to wake up at 3 AM in order to defend a pos in eve would lead to her immediately insisting on some sort of intervention.

That said I do love eve and especially the pvp. I lose just as much isk when I lose a ship as the guy who can play 6 hours a day. So making something for casual players does not mean making eve softer. I might have to grind missions for a week (at 5 hours a week) to get repaid for that ship whereas the "hardcore" player would be able to grind it up in less than a day.

The ship restrictions work quite well in fw.

I think the main problem with proposals on eve-o for changes like the above is that many pvpers have given up on plexing. So they don't even read the plexing proposals anymore. Its too much work for something they have given up on and ccp probably won’t do anything about anyway.

The only people who read the proposals are those who currently *like* to plex. They are very rare birds but they seem to like the pve aspects of it, the "hide and seek" aspects and often even wish to add more npcs! So they are quick to shout down anyone who thinks winning fw by pve is lame. We need more people who like pvp to post about this on eve-o.

Currently in eve you have 3 different scenarios for pvp:

1)Pvp for sov null sec - most efficiently done in a blob.

2)Pvp for griefing/loot/merc contracts - most efficiently done in a blob.

3) Pvp no reason other than fun: Here you have fw and several other parts of eve. But again there is almost never a situation where you are “better off” to break up your fleet - other than to scout, bait or try to catch something before bringing the rest of the gang. You are always better off if you have the most ships possible on *one* battle grid. If you decide to ship down it’s just your decision to deliberately weaken your fleet so you can get a fight. Accordingly, it's somewhat contrived.

The changes posted above to fw would make it so you would literally be better off spreading your ships in different systems in order to keep several plex timers going at once. If the other side outnumbers you can still all get in cruisers and cap medium plexes (or dessie and frigs for minors etc) while they try to get people into that size ship. The strategic aspects of having fleets that can quickly get in different types of ships quickly and strike in multiple systems would add a whole new dimension to eve pvp.

There is currently no mechanic in eve that makes it so you have to commit pilots to many different places and in many different hull sizes therefore logically leading to small gang warfare. (and by the way lead to strategic considerations of how resources/pilots will be deployed.) The proposals I outline above would make this happen. It would be a new pvp scenario in eve that would lead to great small gang and even solo pvp. Pilot skill and strategic thinking will take priority over just saying "who can get more people in bigger ships."

I was going to give FW a shot, but I think I'm going to wait a bit longer while my core skills get up to snuff.

But coming from Warhammer Online, I get a chuckle over some of the common complaints to FW. In the old city seige setup, if you were fortunate enough to be on a balanced server, you needed to do alarm clock assaults at 4 am Saturday mornings. Locking down zones was likely happening due to WAR's version of bobbing.

But I do like the idea of randomly spawning plexes. The old city battles in WAR used to be take and hold three objectives in 50-man instances. If you blobbed, you'd likely steamroll smaller groups, but lose the instance (at that time meant you screwed up the invasion for your side).

So yeah, more strategy = more thinking = better gameplay.

I also came up with this idea for FW:

http://criminallowsec.ideascale.com/a/dtd/Theme--Secessionist-Factions/68851-9665

Would love to see more tactical elements in Faction Warfare.

Also, seems like one of the big complaints with Faction Warfare has been, "Great we won the system. Now what?" From what I've read there isn't much of a benefit to actually having won a system. Aside from the ISK tied to the Plex, is there some benefit to winning a system that I'm not aware of?

Perhaps Faction Warfare also needs a tie into PI? Winning a system gives you a PI related benefit. Exclusive rights to rich planet-side deposits, and/or the ability to blockade rival PI operations (via Customs). Lots of possibilities. This would naturally also lead to a potentially strong tie into DUST.

I have always seen FW as paradigmatically predisposed and having a vested interest in counterbalancing the population and territorial control of pirate-players in Eve. As representatives of the empire, paladin-style types in the old west, this only makes sense. This should be incentivized. Piracy _should_ be very difficult. Only the elite should be able to pull it off proficiently, unlike now, where it is the norm for any half-way adrenaline junkie to get his fix. The relationship between FW and achieving this balance should not go unexplored.

I suggested elsewhere that the player pirate corporations should be encouraged to align with one of the four (?) major NPC Pirate alliances.

Encouraged how?

Each of the 4 Pirate NPC alliances has control of a low-sec system, and has it's own Pirate station in that system. Pirate stations have all kinds of 'goodies' just for pirates. (Pirate faction stuff currently available on the open market will have to be moved here.)

However, the only way to enter that system without the gate guns shooting you or be able to dock is to have a high enough status with THAT Pirate alliance. One way to raise your status of course, is to shoot Pirates from the opposing Pirate factions.

This would be a difficult hurdle for a lot of player pirates, since many of them shoot up NPC pirate rats indiscriminately just to raise their sec up. Once their sec is high enough, they go into low sec and start shooting some more.

Now, to gain entry into the new Pirate stations, Pirates will have to be a lot more selective about which NPC Pirate rats to shoot, and which rats to leave alone. It will take them a while to rat up the standings to allow them to enter into the 'blood raider' system. It will keep them busy in the meantime though, and law enforcement will certainly know where to find them once they are in.

However, the four NPC Pirate alliances would declare war on each other, so you would have a Pirate factional war along the lines of a Pirate militia.

If you were a Pirate allied with the Blood Raiders, and a Pirate allied with the Sanshas came along, they would appear as an orange star to you, at war with your 'Pirate Militia'. You could shoot them without a sec hit, just as it is with FW war.

Presently as a Pirate, you are a 'lone wolf'...you can sit in a plex, at a gate camp, or in a belt and wait for a juicy target to come along. Militias consider you to be neutral, so they don't shoot you, even though you as the Pirate have the opportunity to shoot everyone else indiscriminately. Well, except other Pirates.

However, if the four Pirate factions were at war with each other, a Pirate would actually have to keep an eye out for at least their fellow Pirates who are trying to kill you.

The benefits are:

1. The pirates keep their own numbers down.

2. Pirates have a reason to fight, besides 'I like explosions and killmails'.

3. Pirates have a greater chance of engaging each other in PvP.

4. The PvP fights become more balanced, and meaningful

5. With the Pirates now killing each other, low-sec becomes a little safer.

6. Pirate activity is localized, like putting a bell on the cat.

mode x

There currently is no real benefit to winning occupancy. I think this is ok. I think FW occupancy shouldn't be fought so much for gains as for fun. Right now its not fun to pvp with npcs fighting you. But really most times no one even knows your there sitting in the plex!